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Talk:An insight into child porn

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Contents

Replace DNA with DNS

distressing and disappointing realities

In the part titled "the technology of today", there is a duplicate paragraph (But how, specifically, is child pornography sold? ...). Should be corrected.

Improved version

I made an improved version that is currently hosted by Matti Nikki at http://www.hack.fi/~muzzy/lapsiporno/files/einblicke-english.roughtranslation.2009-03-07.html

-Sebastian

I just started correcting some things in the article given the german original.

-Bytemaster

In the ninth paragraph of "technology today..." "There were fathers destroyed, families ruined, and people event committed suicide." "event" should be "even"

-lumnata

Failure to understand the value in this "leak"

How is this a "leak"? At best this is a misguided plea for understanding from an apparently delusional man who justifies his harmful sexual longings and associations with a handful of legitimate claims against anti-child porn organisations that have links to intolerant religious groups. I can't believe this is actually appearing here.

It is not a leak but an analysis related to various leaks on this website. See the "source documents" list in the bottom of the article.
I see them. And they have little bearing on the overall tenure of the article, which is essentially a rationalisation for pedophilia that attempts to make it seem as though most is produced by complicit children and "enlightened" adults, and that people who find it repulsive and abhorrent do so because deep down they too are pedophiles. Discussing complicity of supposedly moral authorities does not establish that the general revulsion of people towards child pornography and pedophilia is hypocritical. This is a form of twisted logic, and serves no purpose in discussing these links. There is no conceivable way that the majority of children involved in this are able to make mature and informed decisions on their role in this, and parents doing so either are pedophiles themselves or care more for money than their children's well-being. I am not trying to start some giant and inevitably heated discussion on them matter, but the persons responsible for posting this "article" clearly decided to overlook the the fact that it doesn't qualify as a journalistic piece in any sense of the matter, and I have lost a significant amount of respect for the intent of this website.
Do you realize how delicious the irony is --- advocating censorship on wikileaks? It's amazing how quickly your commitment to the free flow in information breaks down when, at last, you encounter a document that offends you. Frankly, the letter belongs here because of people like you. Its theme is so explosive that the author would be no other forum. Come on. If the concept offends you, don't read the letter. But it's worth it, even if only for the logistical, technical discussion of the black hat community.
There is nothing ironic about this because it has nothing to do with censorship. I don't advocate censoring information on child pornography, in either a positive or negative light. My problem, if you read my statement more closely, is that this document does little to discuss the pertinence of the links listed, but rather attempts to use them to support a personal point of view that is largely unsubstantiated by these so-called supporting links. That, is a strong bias, and has little to do with the actual objective investigative value of the links. As I've stated several times, this document is simply a plea for solidarity by a minority group that advocates for sexualisation of and sexual contact with children.
So to understand you, you don't advocate censoring the information, but the context of the article. The context being the viewpoint of a minority group that you personally disagree with. In otherwords you are in favour of censoring this article because it is written by what you percieve to be a pedophile, and therefore, being in your view "delusional", is a "form of twisted logic" that people should not be able to read and make up their own minds. Whether you believe you do not advocate censorship, you quite clearly advocate the silencing of those people with very different viewpoints to your own. Something I would expect from another delusional group such as Perverted Justice and other forms of cyber vigilantes, but not from someone who apparently frequents a wiki dedicated to anti-censorship and the expression of banned or unpopular viewpoints, often censored elsewhere as pointed out above "because of people like you". Perhaps the viewpoint grates harshly with the current western ideology and dogmatic belief that children have no sexuality and are incapable of rational thought, but the reality is that not everywhere follows the same mantra as the US, not everyone is colored the same way. I'm sure the US considers Spain to be 99% pedophile considering its age of consent of 13 (until recently 12). Get your head out of your arse and realise that nothing is as black and white as you think, and if something is unquestionably wrong because the majority say it is, then there is real reason to question it.
Not to interrupt, but you keep repeating 'censorship' as if the more times you do so the more relevant the word becomes. It's not about 'censoring' certain view points but the fact that this article is not any kind of 'leak', but an opinion piece using this wesbite as a platform. Surely such things belong elsewhere. (Especially when they're so full of shit.) One thing in particular which stands out, to me, is the fact that this author, Mr. X, is implying that all the paedophiles he knows or has talked to are male? That is, they're attracted to children as opposed to "women"? So if this is the case then surely it must have more to do with socialisation than pure and basic 'sexual preference' comparable to homo/heterosexuality. It probably /does/, as Mr X accepts as a possibility, have something to do with these men having a problem with 'strong' women. So they go for those who are unable to be protected by social sanctions of equality and respect of consent? That is, children? There are so many things wrong with this article, but I wouldn't advocate such views being 'censored'. I don't, however, think it's fair that such a blatantly opinionated rather than objective author can be presented in such a way that they are made out as some social scientist 'leaking' suppressed 'facts' to the unenlightened population. -Mog

I wont even get into the philological arguments concerning the different interpretations of the word Pedophile (Paedophile), Nepiophile, Teliophile, Ephebephile etc, considering the content of most of these links are TEEN sites, therefore by definition NOT pedophile sites.

Before trying to silence something, read it better.

I think it takes a huge amount of guts to publish something as controversial as this document, kudos to both Mr X (whoever he is) and to the editorial staff of wikileaks for showing it. It's nice to see that there are some people who know the true meaning of freedom of speech. To all those dissenters who wish to silence this document, because you personally disagree with the minority views contain within, I think you are on the wrong website :P I have read nothing to suggest that wikileaks is encouraging illegal activity, but instead a neutral NPOV approach. Something Wikipedia seems to have forgotten in the face of public pressure.

This qualifies as a "leak" because it presents an inside view of the child porn "industry". The rest is well-known information among the pedo/ephebo-phile community - the most important of which is the extra difficulty of obtaining basic human needs - a job, sex, and a place to live, as well as a higher-level desire of understanding and self-expression. Sexual deviancy is largely a side-effect of the employment and fattening of women and the gender gap in sexual desire, the decreasing age of puberty and increasing age of adulthood, as well as the lack of a family and social structure that acts as a match-maker for all. Same goes with other crimes of desperation - among the lowest classes looking for work or a place to live is a joke. See how long you last if you say they didn't make an effort to do it the "normal" way, that they could have got somewhere if they "just get a job". There is a clear distinction between abusive fathers, who already have it all and are not acting toward their basic needs; and teens, porn users, and tragic lovers. The pedophile witch-hunt only works in the same way that a war would: it decreases the population of men. The majority doesn't seem interested in attacking the root causes of social ills but would rather place labels on the people that get squeezed out, and complain later when they get robbed. - Fukkensaved

I'm sorry? 'Sexual deviancy' is a side effect of the employment and fattening of women? One, how does that even work? Two, what does that even mean? And what do you mean 'gender gap in sexual desire'? You think women don't have sexual fantasies? I'm sorry, are you from earth, or some weird fantasy land in the mind? -Mog

Technical side of this

Quite interesting read, from the technical side. I wonder if anybody who has enough knowledge can comment on it. To me the described setup sounds relatively easy to track down. DNS->proxy->sniffing->storage host. Especially if you don't want to proxy the traffic around the whole world. Maybe I'm wrong though... Saying that child porn is so easy to access that blocking doesn't make sense seems to ignore the fact that the majority of users are far too incompetent to use any advanced techniques like VPN or even touch their DNS. That's not something I really want to discuss though.

The translation is a bit rough and (at least for me) this obscures part of the explanation, but it seems feasible to me. AFAIK the method described relies on proxies/forwarders around the world (almost disposable ones), with the real servers being less exposed. => User connects to proxies (keeping their current DNS, not setting up any VPN), govs/ISPs hunt down proxies, operators fish for new proxies. So as long as users have fresh addresses of proxies the ball keeps rolling on. Although it should be possible to find the real server once the authorities discovered the proxy. The proxy certainly could be set up the way that just rebooting the box causes it to destroy all tracks (encrypted files, key lost on reboot)... but on a live system, the hosts it's connecting to must be traceable (the contents of the connections also, but that can be made arbitrarily difficult). Still, the operators could make the proxy establish equally-looking connections to other hosts in order to make finding the real server more difficult.

Call for further research to verify author's claims

Genuine, reliable, anecdotal evidence from women who actually worked in the industry, as child models, is needed, to support - or refute - the author's claims (that they participated willingly and have no regrets).

By genuine and reliable, I mean, where the former model gets to speak freely, with her own voice, not the voice of her former employer or an NGO or quango with its own agenda and preconceptions. If the evidence is provided in an interview, the interviewer must be seen to be independent of any relevant vested interests, and ask balanced, not loaded, questions. An interviewer could verify that the model is bona fide.

Many of the models who worked in the studios that closed in 2004 and 2005 are now aged between 16 and 18, and well able to provide an account and evaluation of their own experience. And the author, by his own account, seems able to contact them and arrange for them to do so, in a manner and format which is credible.

I shall also post this message in the discussion forum of the wikileaks facebook group, here:

http://harvard.facebook.com/board.php?uid=2257397452

Opinions/Comments

Sorry but...I don't share your view. Particularly about the decriminalization part of the article. The possession of child porn HAS to be legally prosecuted; otherwise there would only be a higher "demand" from the consumers of child porn, which could only be fulfilled by a higher "supply", inducing the CP producer to continue their illegal work... Don't you think so? Second: any child that enters into sexuality without an adequate mental preparation will suffer of several psychological issues. This adequate preparation is only achieved "growing". So a child should NEVER enter into sexuality. Do you think that 18yo limit was imposed for harming you? How immature are you? - Anonymous 1

Anonymous 2 - CP's will continue their work so long as they have a customer base. Regardless of whether or not possession of child pornography is decriminalized,CP's and individuals can still be charged for production and distribution of child pornography. If indeed it is true that 20% of teenagers share sexual content with each other, Then the decriminalization of the possession of child pornography will protect young teenagers more than it will truly abusive individuals,more accurately those that force the child into a form a form of sex,an example being rape. secondly: how can a "child" be truly prepared for sexuality if they have not experienced it? A 30 year old virgin would have just as little experience as a 12 year old virgin,the average age at which a child,irrespective of gender is exposed to pornography is 11 and getting lower every year. http://www.internet-filter-review.toptenreviews.com/internet-pornography-statistics.html "This adequate mental preparation is only achieved "growing". So a child should NEVER enter sexuality." It is physically and logically impossible for a child to grow up mentally prepared for sex if they never experience or express it,it has long already been a natural process for children and in this case teenagers to enter sexuality,it is called "Puberty". And what you are advocating is sexual repression,which leads to psychological issues being lack of self-confidence,low self-esteem,depression,suicidal tendencies and leads to increases in frustration,stress and emotional instability.[?] Whether or not these psychological issues lead an adult to consume child pornography is not known,but sexual repression has historically never yielded aesthetic results to the wider society and has caused more problems then it has solved. Imposing an arbitrary age limit to sexual activity is one such measure that achieves sexual repression,honed from older religious-political beliefs. A child does not acquire mental/emotional scars from expressing and experiencing sexuality,rather a child receives those scars from truly forceful,antisocial and abusive entities,regardless of whether or not they are sexual towards children. On the side,sexual repression has long been an ideal advocated by religious/political institutions with results that were not as ideal,one which you,'Anonymous 1' reflect. And so one has to wonder,How immature are YOU?

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